A contrarian view

[Sparky Spartacus]

I was disappointed by the finale. Even though we had discussed how the
characters would die, I didn't think Ball would actually do it (whoever
posted the spoiler certainly had a good source, however) - pretty hokey
IMHO (which seems to be the minority POV). Besides, too reminiscent of
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

Speaking of quantum mechanics, from a parallel universe, Claire never
makes it to NYC. She only gets as far as Las Vegas on I-15, where she
decides to get into show business and fails, then develops a gambling
problem & loses her trust fund. Ultimately she becomes a prostitute but
can't cut it as a call girl, so she ends up a crack whore (and probably
a corpse in a future episode of CSI).

Anyway, a great show!

[b or t k-c]

Post by Sparky Spartacus
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

I saw them as flash-backs, as if she was reflecting back on the years
following her leaving for NY.


...................

Post by Sparky Spartacus
I was disappointed by the finale. Even though we had discussed how the
characters would die, I didn't think Ball would actually do it (whoever
posted the spoiler certainly had a good source, however) - pretty hokey
IMHO (which seems to be the minority POV). Besides, too reminiscent of
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire was
having flash forwards on everyone's death.
Speaking of quantum mechanics, from a parallel universe, Claire never
makes it to NYC. She only gets as far as Las Vegas on I-15, where she
decides to get into show business and fails, then develops a gambling
problem & loses her trust fund. Ultimately she becomes a prostitute but
can't cut it as a call girl, so she ends up a crack whore (and probably a
corpse in a future episode of CSI).
Anyway, a great show!

[Sparky Spartacus]

Post by b or t k-c

Post by Sparky Spartacus
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

I saw them as flash-backs, as if she was reflecting back on the years
following her leaving for NY.

On her trip to NY? And who drives from LA to NYC, anyway? It's not as
though she's going to need a car there.

Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?

[KC]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:11:26 -0400, Sparky Spartacus

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by b or t k-c

Post by Sparky Spartacus
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

I saw them as flash-backs, as if she was reflecting back on the years
following her leaving for NY.

On her trip to NY? And who drives from LA to NYC, anyway? It's not as
though she's going to need a car there.
Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?

Billy asked Tom how long he had been seeing Claire (or how long they'd
known each other?) and Tom said about 4 months, IIRC. They had only
known each other for a short time when they went to the gallery and
then started seeing each other the night Nate died. I don't think too
much time passed between that conversation and Claire's departure, so
I'm guessing about 4 months, maybe a tad bit longer.

KC

[Sparky Spartacus]

Post by KC
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:11:26 -0400, Sparky Spartacus

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by b or t k-c

Post by Sparky Spartacus
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

I saw them as flash-backs, as if she was reflecting back on the years
following her leaving for NY.

On her trip to NY? And who drives from LA to NYC, anyway? It's not as
though she's going to need a car there.
Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?

Billy asked Tom how long he had been seeing Claire (or how long they'd
known each other?) and Tom said about 4 months, IIRC. They had only
known each other for a short time when they went to the gallery and
then started seeing each other the night Nate died. I don't think too
much time passed between that conversation and Claire's departure, so
I'm guessing about 4 months, maybe a tad bit longer.

Had forgotten that, thanks (Ted, BTW).

Pretty short time for Durrell to make such a stunning turnaround from
hating Keith & David to saying proudly: "My dad, Keith, used to be a cop".

[Nil]

Post by Sparky Spartacus
Pretty short time for Durrell to make such a stunning turnaround
from hating Keith & David to saying proudly: "My dad, Keith, used
to be a cop".

Everything in the last episode happened too fast to be completely
believable. Everyone confronted a demon that had been haunting them for
years and made peace with it... all suddenly and within a very short
period of time. It was all just a little too pat, but I don't think the
story could have been told any other way. It would take some more shows
to resolve those issues in a more realistic manner, but the show would
have limped to its conclusion. This way there's just a short wind-down
from the climax of Nate's death.

[notherenow]

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by KC
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:11:26 -0400, Sparky Spartacus

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by b or t k-c

Post by Sparky Spartacus
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

I saw them as flash-backs, as if she was reflecting back on the years
following her leaving for NY.

On her trip to NY? And who drives from LA to NYC, anyway? It's not as
though she's going to need a car there.
Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?

Billy asked Tom how long he had been seeing Claire (or how long they'd
known each other?) and Tom said about 4 months, IIRC. They had only
known each other for a short time when they went to the gallery and
then started seeing each other the night Nate died. I don't think too
much time passed between that conversation and Claire's departure, so
I'm guessing about 4 months, maybe a tad bit longer.

Had forgotten that, thanks (Ted, BTW).
Pretty short time for Durrell to make such a stunning turnaround from
hating Keith & David to saying proudly: "My dad, Keith, used to be a cop".

Except that these were kids rescued from the foster-care system. I
think it is possible that once his extreme fear of being abandoned once
again subsided, he'd become absolutely devoted to adults he could trust.
His was not a rebellious sulking of a middle-class
teen-rebel-without-cause. His acting out was a survival mechanism, he
alienated people so it wouldn't hurt so bad when they put him back in
the system.

[KC]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 04:53:59 -0400, Sparky Spartacus

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by KC
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:11:26 -0400, Sparky Spartacus

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by b or t k-c

Post by Sparky Spartacus
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

I saw them as flash-backs, as if she was reflecting back on the years
following her leaving for NY.

On her trip to NY? And who drives from LA to NYC, anyway? It's not as
though she's going to need a car there.
Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?

Billy asked Tom how long he had been seeing Claire (or how long they'd
known each other?) and Tom said about 4 months, IIRC. They had only
known each other for a short time when they went to the gallery and
then started seeing each other the night Nate died. I don't think too
much time passed between that conversation and Claire's departure, so
I'm guessing about 4 months, maybe a tad bit longer.

Had forgotten that, thanks (Ted, BTW).
Pretty short time for Durrell to make such a stunning turnaround from
hating Keith & David to saying proudly: "My dad, Keith, used to be a cop".

Oops, yes, Ted. I agree that it looked like Durrell made a quick
change, but I suppose that we're to understand that once Keith changed
his attitude, there was daily bonding. Since David was unstable and
scary, Keith became their primary parent and that, plus the force with
which Keith was determined to protect them from David's state of mind
would make quite an impression on Durrell. His crackhead mother
probably told him she loved him, but these guys *showed* it through
sheer force of will.

KC

[Sparky Spartacus]

Post by KC
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 04:53:59 -0400, Sparky Spartacus

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by KC
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:11:26 -0400, Sparky Spartacus

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by b or t k-c

Post by Sparky Spartacus
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

I saw them as flash-backs, as if she was reflecting back on the years
following her leaving for NY.

On her trip to NY? And who drives from LA to NYC, anyway? It's not as
though she's going to need a car there.
Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?

Billy asked Tom how long he had been seeing Claire (or how long they'd
known each other?) and Tom said about 4 months, IIRC. They had only
known each other for a short time when they went to the gallery and
then started seeing each other the night Nate died. I don't think too
much time passed between that conversation and Claire's departure, so
I'm guessing about 4 months, maybe a tad bit longer.

Had forgotten that, thanks (Ted, BTW).
Pretty short time for Durrell to make such a stunning turnaround from
hating Keith & David to saying proudly: "My dad, Keith, used to be a cop".

Oops, yes, Ted. I agree that it looked like Durrell made a quick
change, but I suppose that we're to understand that once Keith changed
his attitude, there was daily bonding. Since David was unstable and
scary, Keith became their primary parent and that, plus the force with
which Keith was determined to protect them from David's state of mind
would make quite an impression on Durrell. His crackhead mother
probably told him she loved him, but these guys *showed* it through
sheer force of will.

Besides, Keith took them to Mexico where they swam in the ocean (as
though they couldn't do that in the LA area).

[Ann]

<<Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?>>

We don't know what amount of time elapsed from the time billy asked Ted
about how long he had been seeing Claire to the time when Claire actually
left. Remember, the Fisher house had been completely renovated, Keith and
David and the kids had moved in and when Claire initially got the phone call
to move to NYC she was supposed to start work on December 7.

Post by KC
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:11:26 -0400, Sparky Spartacus

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by b or t k-c

Post by Sparky Spartacus
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

I saw them as flash-backs, as if she was reflecting back on the years
following her leaving for NY.

On her trip to NY? And who drives from LA to NYC, anyway? It's not as
though she's going to need a car there.
Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?

Billy asked Tom how long he had been seeing Claire (or how long they'd
known each other?) and Tom said about 4 months, IIRC. They had only
known each other for a short time when they went to the gallery and
then started seeing each other the night Nate died. I don't think too
much time passed between that conversation and Claire's departure, so
I'm guessing about 4 months, maybe a tad bit longer.
KC

[Sparky Spartacus]

Post by Ann
<<Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?>>
We don't know what amount of time elapsed from the time billy asked Ted
about how long he had been seeing Claire to the time when Claire actually
left. Remember, the Fisher house had been completely renovated, Keith and
David and the kids had moved in and when Claire initially got the phone call
to move to NYC she was supposed to start work on December 7.

Pearl Harbor Day - no accident there.

[KC]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 13:06:24 -0500, "Ann"

Post by Ann
<<Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?>>
We don't know what amount of time elapsed from the time billy asked Ted
about how long he had been seeing Claire to the time when Claire actually
left. Remember, the Fisher house had been completely renovated, Keith and
David and the kids had moved in and when Claire initially got the phone call
to move to NYC she was supposed to start work on December 7.

We don't know how far off December 7th was from the day of the phone
call, but it didn't sound like a long time. They were asking for her
social and her NY address, so it sounded like they were expecting her
start work fairly soon. The guy sounded surprised that she wasn't
already in NY and he thought she had already been informed that she
got the job. I can't imagine they'd be collecting this info if she was
to report for work 3 months from now, especially since the people at
her new job will be needing coffee soon.

Were there any clues through the ep that hinted to the month or time
of year? Anthony and Durrell were in school in the beginning of the
ep, but we didn't see anything in reference to Halloween or
Thanksgiving, but if Claire was going to drive cross country and get a
place to live, she would have left before Thanksgiving.

I'm going to guess that she was supposed to be called with the job
offer early in November and that the info gathering call was shortly
after. I think she had 3-4 weeks before the job started.

No idea how David and Keith got the kitchen redone that fast. But, I
know several people who are waiting 18 months to get their house built
and mine will be done in 8 months.

KC

[j***@hotmail.com]

I've been absorbing the last episode since Sunday, and now it's
Tuesday.....as a nurse in labor and delivery and NICU, the hospital
stuff drove all of us crazy, and it wasn't THAT great an episode,
except for the ending. Also thought Claire wasn't really "envisioning"
the future deaths, but the authors just wanted us to see them as they
simultaneously saw Claire driving for her new future. Funny whoever
said Who drives a car to New York, where she won't need a car anyway!
Any mention of that new Hybrid Prius? Still think the show did not
place blacks or Hispanics in great light, why must the drug addicted
moms who leave their kids always be black?? (PS, wonder how Taylor is
doing....) All in all, an excellent show that I will miss, and now I'm
ready for ROME.

[Teresa R]

It occurs to me: How likely is it that Claire would have been given a job
*sight unseen*? Especially given how cutthroat the NYC scene is, it's hard
to believe that, even with a glowing reference, she'd have gotten the job
without an interview.

Post by KC
We don't know how far off December 7th was from the day of the phone
call, but it didn't sound like a long time. They were asking for her
social and her NY address, so it sounded like they were expecting her
start work fairly soon. The guy sounded surprised that she wasn't
already in NY and he thought she had already been informed that she
got the job. I can't imagine they'd be collecting this info if she was
to report for work 3 months from now, especially since the people at
her new job will be needing coffee soon.

<snip>

[Sparky Spartacus]

Post by Teresa R
It occurs to me: How likely is it that Claire would have been given a job
*sight unseen*? Especially given how cutthroat the NYC scene is, it's hard
to believe that, even with a glowing reference, she'd have gotten the job
without an interview.

True, I assume whoever recommended her probably called in a favor (the
same way Margaret Chenowith did for Brenda). That's how these thing are
done.

[FatKat]

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by Teresa R
It occurs to me: How likely is it that Claire would have been given a job
*sight unseen*? Especially given how cutthroat the NYC scene is, it's hard
to believe that, even with a glowing reference, she'd have gotten the job
without an interview.

True, I assume whoever recommended her probably called in a favor (the
same way Margaret Chenowith did for Brenda). That's how these thing are
done.

Maybe she got the job-offer through Olivier because of Margaret.
Hmmm....could we have gotten that heartless, callous bitch all wrong?

[Patricia Butler]

Post by FatKat

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by Teresa R
It occurs to me: How likely is it that Claire would have been given a job
*sight unseen*? Especially given how cutthroat the NYC scene is, it's hard
to believe that, even with a glowing reference, she'd have gotten the job
without an interview.

True, I assume whoever recommended her probably called in a favor (the
same way Margaret Chenowith did for Brenda). That's how these thing are
done.

Maybe she got the job-offer through Olivier because of Margaret.
Hmmm....could we have gotten that heartless, callous bitch all wrong?

It sounds like you missed the conversation when Olivier tells Claire
that he's the one who recommended her, and why.

[FatKat]

Post by Patricia Butler

Post by FatKat

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by Teresa R
It occurs to me: How likely is it that Claire would have been given a job
*sight unseen*? Especially given how cutthroat the NYC scene is, it's hard
to believe that, even with a glowing reference, she'd have gotten the job
without an interview.

True, I assume whoever recommended her probably called in a favor (the
same way Margaret Chenowith did for Brenda). That's how these thing are
done.

Maybe she got the job-offer through Olivier because of Margaret.
Hmmm....could we have gotten that heartless, callous bitch all wrong?

It sounds like you missed the conversation when Olivier tells Claire
that he's the one who recommended her, and why.

No I saw that part, but thought it was still possible that Margaret
might still have had something to do with it.

[c***@verizon.net]

I hadn't thought of that - maybe Margaret encouraged Olivier to
recommend Claire for Billy's well-being. It's probably hard for Billy
to see Claire at all these family functions - especially when she shows
up with someone like Ted (normal, employed, financially independent).
So, Margaret has Olivier ship Claire off to NYC where she's only going
to be back in California for weddings, funerals, anual vists home...

[Sparky Spartacus]

Post by FatKat

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by Teresa R
It occurs to me: How likely is it that Claire would have been given a job
*sight unseen*? Especially given how cutthroat the NYC scene is, it's hard
to believe that, even with a glowing reference, she'd have gotten the job
without an interview.

True, I assume whoever recommended her probably called in a favor (the
same way Margaret Chenowith did for Brenda). That's how these thing are
done.

Maybe she got the job-offer through Olivier because of Margaret.
Hmmm....could we have gotten that heartless, callous bitch all wrong?

Hard to imagine Margaret going out of her way for Claire, but you never
know. Also possible Olivier did it on his own.

[w***@gmail.com]

Post by Ann
<<Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?>>
We don't know what amount of time elapsed from the time billy asked Ted
about how long he had been seeing Claire to the time when Claire actually
left. Remember, the Fisher house had been completely renovated, Keith and
David and the kids had moved in and when Claire initially got the phone call
to move to NYC she was supposed to start work on December 7.

And Nate dies at the end of May. So 7 months between Nates's death and
when Claire left.

[Sparky Spartacus]

Post by w***@gmail.com

Post by Ann
<<Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?>>
We don't know what amount of time elapsed from the time billy asked Ted
about how long he had been seeing Claire to the time when Claire actually
left. Remember, the Fisher house had been completely renovated, Keith and
David and the kids had moved in and when Claire initially got the phone call
to move to NYC she was supposed to start work on December 7.

And Nate dies at the end of May. So 7 months between Nates's death and
when Claire left.

Great, thanks.

[KC]

Post by w***@gmail.com

Post by Ann
<<Does anyone have a feel for the time from Nate's funeral to Claire's
departure for NYC?>>
We don't know what amount of time elapsed from the time billy asked Ted
about how long he had been seeing Claire to the time when Claire actually
left. Remember, the Fisher house had been completely renovated, Keith and
David and the kids had moved in and when Claire initially got the phone call
to move to NYC she was supposed to start work on December 7.

And Nate dies at the end of May. So 7 months between Nates's death and
when Claire left.

Was there a reference to May? How do you know it was the end of May? I
don't recall anything that said that. What did I miss?

KC

[r***@webtv.net]

I saw claires traveling to NY as a time-line, further traveled, the more
time passed. Bravo. Fantastic Show. Question. Who played almost dead
Claire. I dont think that was makeup. Shes blind. Marc

[notherenow]

Post by Sparky Spartacus
I was disappointed by the finale. Even though we had discussed how the
characters would die, I didn't think Ball would actually do it (whoever
posted the spoiler certainly had a good source, however) - pretty hokey
IMHO (which seems to be the minority POV). Besides, too reminiscent of
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

It's too bad you were disappointed, I'm sorry you feel that way.
But, do you buy that old saw about there not being any original ideas or
stories? I don't think it is a big deal that SFU had elements that are
reminiscent of other shows/stories. What I was looking for was the
quality of the writing and the quality of the acting and to me, it was a
perfect ending to a high quality show that all together, over the course
of 5 years, told a compelling story about fascinating characters.

Post by Sparky Spartacus
Speaking of quantum mechanics, from a parallel universe, Claire never
makes it to NYC. She only gets as far as Las Vegas on I-15, where she
decides to get into show business and fails, then develops a gambling
problem & loses her trust fund. Ultimately she becomes a prostitute but
can't cut it as a call girl, so she ends up a crack whore (and probably
a corpse in a future episode of CSI).
Anyway, a great show!

[Sparky Spartacus]

Post by notherenow

Post by Sparky Spartacus
I was disappointed by the finale. Even though we had discussed how the
characters would die, I didn't think Ball would actually do it (whoever
posted the spoiler certainly had a good source, however) - pretty hokey
IMHO (which seems to be the minority POV). Besides, too reminiscent of
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

It's too bad you were disappointed, I'm sorry you feel that way.

Not to worry, but thanks.

Post by notherenow
But, do you buy that old saw about there not being any original ideas or
stories?

Certainly not, 6FU had lots of new ideas.

[notherenow]

Post by Sparky Spartacus

Post by notherenow

Post by Sparky Spartacus
I was disappointed by the finale. Even though we had discussed how the
characters would die, I didn't think Ball would actually do it (whoever
posted the spoiler certainly had a good source, however) - pretty hokey
IMHO (which seems to be the minority POV). Besides, too reminiscent of
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

It's too bad you were disappointed, I'm sorry you feel that way.

Not to worry, but thanks.

Post by notherenow
But, do you buy that old saw about there not being any original ideas or
stories?

Certainly not, 6FU had lots of new ideas.

SFU had a unique and perhaps original way of telling stories, but the
content of the stories was not necessarily original. There were
elements that date back to mythology and the great Greek philosophers.

[FatKat]

Post by Sparky Spartacus
I was disappointed by the finale. Even though we had discussed how the
characters would die, I didn't think Ball would actually do it (whoever
posted the spoiler certainly had a good source, however) - pretty hokey
IMHO (which seems to be the minority POV). Besides, too reminiscent of
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

Since it's been about 30 years since Graffitti, it's not like the
effect was overdone - and I think they easily outdid Graffitti by
showing snapshots of those last moments. Claire seems like a natural
choice to envision everybody else's end, since she was the artist of
the show, it's only natural for the creators to identify with her and
give her a greater pers[pective than the other characters.

[!! (Kira Dirlik)]

Post by FatKat

Post by Sparky Spartacus
I was disappointed by the finale. Even though we had discussed how the
characters would die, I didn't think Ball would actually do it (whoever
posted the spoiler certainly had a good source, however) - pretty hokey
IMHO (which seems to be the minority POV). Besides, too reminiscent of
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

Since it's been about 30 years since Graffitti, it's not like the
effect was overdone - and I think they easily outdid Graffitti by
showing snapshots of those last moments. Claire seems like a natural
choice to envision everybody else's end, since she was the artist of
the show, it's only natural for the creators to identify with her and
give her a greater pers[pective than the other characters.

I didn't get the impression that Clare was envisioning peoples'
deaths. I felt that the writers were just using the road as a
metaphore... time moving on and on, like calendar dates and stopping
along the way to show each death. I thought that was a wonderful way
of doing it.
Kira

[Patricia Butler]

Post by FatKat

Post by Sparky Spartacus
I was disappointed by the finale. Even though we had discussed how the
characters would die, I didn't think Ball would actually do it (whoever
posted the spoiler certainly had a good source, however) - pretty hokey
IMHO (which seems to be the minority POV). Besides, too reminiscent of
"American Graffiti" & "Animal House). Also seemed odd to me that Claire
was having flash forwards on everyone's death.

Since it's been about 30 years since Graffitti, it's not like the
effect was overdone - and I think they easily outdid Graffitti by
showing snapshots of those last moments. Claire seems like a natural
choice to envision everybody else's end, since she was the artist of
the show, it's only natural for the creators to identify with her and
give her a greater pers[pective than the other characters.

American Graffiti and Animal House only updated the characters until
the "present moment" (whatever that was perceived to be, I guess).
They certainly didn't have the unique idea of taking them all the way
into the future and telling you how and when they died.