Discussion:
From HBO website ~ Obits
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2000holly
2005-08-22 15:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Ruth O'Connor Fisher


Ruth Fisher was born in Pasadena in 1946 and died at Good Samaritan
Hospital of Glendale on Wednesday. She graduated from Pasadena High School
in 1963 and stayed home to raise three children before opening the Four
Paws Pet Retreat in Topanga Canyon twenty years ago.

She is survived by her loving companion George Sibley, her sister Sarah
O'Connor, her son David Fisher of Los Angeles and her daughter Claire
Fisher of New York City. Ruth will also be missed by her four cherished
grandchildren - Maya Fisher, Willa Chenowith, and Anthony and Durrell
Charles-Fisher.

Viewing will be held on Saturday, March 15th at 2 p.m. at Fisher & Sons
Funeral Home at 2302 W. 25th Street in Los Angeles. Private burial to
follow.

Keith Dwayne Charles


Keith Charles, founder of Charles Security Company, was born in 1968 in
San Diego. He died suddenly at work on Tuesday morning.

Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree in
Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a member of the
LAPD for nine years before joining the security industry. He leaves behind
his devoted husband David Fisher and loving sons Durrell and Anthony
Charles-Fisher, his grandson Matthew, his sister Karla Charles and his
niece Taylor Benoit of Carlsbad. Keith is pre-deceased by his parents
Roderick and Lucille Charles of San Diego. Memorial service will be held
on Sunday, February 18th at 2 p.m. at Fisher & Sons Funeral Home at 2302
W. 25th Street in Los Angeles.

David James Fisher


Born January 20, 1969. Died at the age of 75 in Echo Park. He was proud
owner and operator of Fisher & Sons Funeral Home of Los Angeles for over
forty years. After retiring in 2034, he went on to perform in dozens of
local theater productions, including Weill and Brecht's "Threepenny
Opera," Rossini's "The Barber of Seville," and as Ebenezer Scrooge in
Dickens' "A Christmas Carol." David leaves behind his partner Raoul
Martinez, his beloved sons Durrell and Anthony Charles-Fisher, his sister
Claire Fisher and his three precious grandchildren Matthew, Keith, and
Katie. In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the Southern
California Opera Association

Hector Federico Diaz


Died at the age of 75 while vacationing with his wife in Puerto Rico.
Federico graduated from Cyprus College in 1997 with a degree in Mortuary
Science. He worked as a restorative artist for several years before
becoming part owner of Fisher & Diaz Funeral Home on 25th Street. In 2005,
Federico opened the Diaz Family Mortuary on DeLongpre Avenue in Hollywood,
where he served the community for 35 years before retiring.

Pre-deceased by his parents Mauricio and Lilia Diaz of Los Angeles. He was
married to his beloved wife Vanessa for 54 years and leaves behind his
cherished sons Julio and Augusto and his three grandchildren: Emily,
Celestina and Vincent.

Memorial service will be held at Diaz Family Mortuary on Saturday,
February 16th at 11:00 a.m. Funeral mass will be held at 9:30 a.m. the
following day at St. Paul's Catholic Church in Atwater Village.

Brenda Chenowith


Brenda Chenowith was born July 19, 1969 and died at the age of 82 at home.
She earned her Masters Degree in Social Work at California State
University of Los Angeles and a PhD in Theories of Human Behavior at
University of Southern California.

Brenda wrote several books about the role of the gifted child in family
development. She is considered to be one of the most distinguished
scholars in that field of study, adding several courses to the Social Work
curriculum at USC. She developed research methodologies to conclusively
prove the link between deviant human behavior and fetal alcohol exposure.
As a child, Brenda was the subject of the book "Charlotte Light and Dark"
by Gareth Feinberg, PhD.

Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu. Private services will be held
Wednesday March 9th at Deep Creek Nature Preserve. In lieu of flowers,
donations may be made to a charity of your choice.

Claire Simone Fisher
1983 - 2085

Born March 13, 1983. Died February 11, 2085 in Manhattan. Claire grew up
in Los Angeles and studied art at LAC-Arts College. She worked as an
advertising and fashion photographer and photojournalist for nearly fifty
years, creating several memorable covers for Washington Post magazine, W,
and The Face. Claire often exhibited her work in New York and London art
galleries and in a time when nearly everyone else in her field had turned
to digital scanning and computer-driven imaging, she continued to use a
silver-based photographic process. Claire began teaching photography as a
faculty member at New York University's Tisch School of the Arts in 2018,
earning tenure in 2028. She's pre-deceased by her beloved husband Ted
Fairwell.
Guy Fletcher
2005-08-22 15:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2000holly
Keith Dwayne Charles
Keith Charles, founder of Charles Security Company, was born in 1968 in
San Diego. He died suddenly at work on Tuesday morning.
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree in
Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a member of the
LAPD for nine years before joining the security industry.
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from West Point
and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his military commitment
following West Point have him in the Army until the mid-1990s?

And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
jcoulter
2005-08-22 15:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy Fletcher
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from West
Point and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his military
commitment following West Point have him in the Army until the
mid-1990s?
And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
yes, and yes, but then he was gay and that would have let him out by coming
out.
--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/
Daedalus
2005-08-22 16:26:23 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:37:36 -0400, "Guy Fletcher"
Post by Guy Fletcher
Post by 2000holly
Keith Dwayne Charles
Keith Charles, founder of Charles Security Company, was born in 1968 in
San Diego. He died suddenly at work on Tuesday morning.
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree in
Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a member of the
LAPD for nine years before joining the security industry.
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from West Point
and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his military commitment
following West Point have him in the Army until the mid-1990s?
And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
I'm glad you prefaced this post. It definitely was kinda nit-picky.

Jade
J.D. Baldwin
2005-08-22 16:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy Fletcher
Post by 2000holly
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree
in Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a
member of the LAPD for nine years before joining the security
industry.
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from
West Point and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his
military commitment following West Point have him in the Army until
the mid-1990s?
Well, perhaps he discovered that whole openly gay thing just after
graduation. It happens.

Still, this rand the bullshit bell for me big-time. You go to West
Point, and it's a part of your life forever. This is the first we
hear about it? No way. That's a backstory that just can't be *that*
deeply submerged.

Besides, a criminology major at West Point? Come on. I don't think
they even had a majors program at all in 1989, and majors today are
optional.
Post by Guy Fletcher
And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
Yes. Lots of people just call it "West Point" and you'll find a lot
of "West Point Military Academy" hits on Google, but you would not
expect to see an error like that in a published obit, even a paid one.

The other thing that bugged me about the obit is that it doesn't even
mention that he owned his own security business.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / ***@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
jcoulter
2005-08-22 17:08:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
The other thing that bugged me about the obit is that it doesn't even
mention that he owned his own security business.
read back it says "founder of Charles Security"
--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/
J.D. Baldwin
2005-08-22 18:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by jcoulter
Post by J.D. Baldwin
The other thing that bugged me about the obit is that it doesn't
even mention that he owned his own security business.
read back it says "founder of Charles Security"
Oops.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / ***@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
twd3lr
2005-08-22 17:09:49 UTC
Permalink
"The other thing that bugged me about the obit is that it doesn't even
mention that he owned his own security business."

Uhh, yes it did:

"Keith Charles, founder of Charles Security Company, was born in 1968
in
San Diego. He died suddenly at work on Tuesday morning."
b or t k-c
2005-08-22 17:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
The other thing that bugged me about the obit is that it doesn't even
mention that he owned his own security business.
"Keith Charles, founder of Charles Security Company..."
--
...................
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Guy Fletcher
Post by 2000holly
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree
in Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a
member of the LAPD for nine years before joining the security
industry.
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from
West Point and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his
military commitment following West Point have him in the Army until
the mid-1990s?
Well, perhaps he discovered that whole openly gay thing just after
graduation. It happens.
Still, this rand the bullshit bell for me big-time. You go to West
Point, and it's a part of your life forever. This is the first we
hear about it? No way. That's a backstory that just can't be *that*
deeply submerged.
Besides, a criminology major at West Point? Come on. I don't think
they even had a majors program at all in 1989, and majors today are
optional.
Post by Guy Fletcher
And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
Yes. Lots of people just call it "West Point" and you'll find a lot
of "West Point Military Academy" hits on Google, but you would not
expect to see an error like that in a published obit, even a paid one.
The other thing that bugged me about the obit is that it doesn't even
mention that he owned his own security business.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-22 23:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Guy Fletcher
Post by 2000holly
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree
in Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a
member of the LAPD for nine years before joining the security
industry.
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from
West Point and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his
military commitment following West Point have him in the Army until
the mid-1990s?
Well, perhaps he discovered that whole openly gay thing just after
graduation. It happens.
Still, this rand the bullshit bell for me big-time. You go to West
Point, and it's a part of your life forever. This is the first we
hear about it? No way. That's a backstory that just can't be *that*
deeply submerged.
Agreed, totally bogus to send Keith to West Point at this point.
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Besides, a criminology major at West Point? Come on. I don't think
they even had a majors program at all in 1989, and majors today are
optional.
Post by Guy Fletcher
And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
Yes. Lots of people just call it "West Point" and you'll find a lot
of "West Point Military Academy" hits on Google, but you would not
expect to see an error like that in a published obit, even a paid one.
The other thing that bugged me about the obit is that it doesn't even
mention that he owned his own security business.
Also said he "died suddenly". That's like saying he died of natural
causes when 3 bullets went thru his heart.
J.D. Baldwin
2005-08-23 02:21:01 UTC
Permalink
In the previous article, Sparky Spartacus
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Also said he "died suddenly". That's like saying he died of natural
causes when 3 bullets went thru his heart.
That bit rang true to me. Obits for violent deaths, suicide or
homicide, frequently say "Died suddenly" instead of getting into
details. Personally, I would never ever write that for myself or a
slain family member, but it's very common.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / ***@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-23 08:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Sparky Spartacus
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Also said he "died suddenly". That's like saying he died of natural
causes when 3 bullets went thru his heart.
That bit rang true to me. Obits for violent deaths, suicide or
homicide, frequently say "Died suddenly" instead of getting into
details. Personally, I would never ever write that for myself or a
slain family member, but it's very common.
Interesting to know, thanks. I have no idea how such things are handled
in real obits.
b or t k-c
2005-08-23 11:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Also said he "died suddenly".
That bit rang true to me.
It's not that different from "after a long illness". It puts it in a
time-frame, without giving details..


...................
Post by J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Sparky Spartacus
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Also said he "died suddenly". That's like saying he died of natural
causes when 3 bullets went thru his heart.
That bit rang true to me. Obits for violent deaths, suicide or
homicide, frequently say "Died suddenly" instead of getting into
details. Personally, I would never ever write that for myself or a
slain family member, but it's very common.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
b***@gmail.com
2005-08-23 15:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Sparky Spartacus
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Also said he "died suddenly". That's like saying he died of natural
causes when 3 bullets went thru his heart.
That bit rang true to me. Obits for violent deaths, suicide or
homicide, frequently say "Died suddenly" instead of getting into
details. Personally, I would never ever write that for myself or a
slain family member, but it's very common.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What would you write? My paper never even lists a cause of death any
more. The only clue is usually the 'In leiu of Flowers send donation to
???'
J.D. Baldwin
2005-08-23 16:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by J.D. Baldwin
That bit rang true to me. Obits for violent deaths, suicide or
homicide, frequently say "Died suddenly" instead of getting into
details. Personally, I would never ever write that for myself or a
slain family member, but it's very common.
What would you write? My paper never even lists a cause of death any
more. The only clue is usually the 'In leiu of Flowers send donation
to ???'
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and hope
I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least to
drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / ***@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tina
2005-08-23 18:38:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by J.D. Baldwin
That bit rang true to me. Obits for violent deaths, suicide or
homicide, frequently say "Died suddenly" instead of getting into
details. Personally, I would never ever write that for myself or a
slain family member, but it's very common.
What would you write? My paper never even lists a cause of death any
more. The only clue is usually the 'In leiu of Flowers send donation
to ???'
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and hope
I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least to
drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
Integrity? In poor taste! I love gruesome details as much as the next
person, but an a public obituary is not the place.

Tina
J.D. Baldwin
2005-08-23 19:00:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and
hope I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least
to drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
Integrity? In poor taste!
Lots of people feel this way, which is why you see the euphemisms so
often. I say "integrity" because it would be a little hypocritical of
me to use weasel-words in an obit (or want them used in mine) after a
lifetime of hating that kind of thing.
Post by Tina
I love gruesome details as much as the next person, but an a public
obituary is not the place.
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his own
life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / ***@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tina
2005-08-23 19:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and
hope I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least
to drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
Integrity? In poor taste!
Lots of people feel this way, which is why you see the euphemisms so
often. I say "integrity" because it would be a little hypocritical of
me to use weasel-words in an obit (or want them used in mine) after a
lifetime of hating that kind of thing.
Post by Tina
I love gruesome details as much as the next person, but an a public
obituary is not the place.
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his own
life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
*Who* needs to know these personal facts about a person death? Anyone who
knows the deceased will find out the details of the death.

Tina
notherenow
2005-08-23 19:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and
hope I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least
to drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
Integrity? In poor taste!
Lots of people feel this way, which is why you see the euphemisms so
often. I say "integrity" because it would be a little hypocritical of
me to use weasel-words in an obit (or want them used in mine) after a
lifetime of hating that kind of thing.
Post by Tina
I love gruesome details as much as the next person, but an a public
obituary is not the place.
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his own
life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
*Who* needs to know these personal facts about a person death? Anyone who
knows the deceased will find out the details of the death.
Tina
ITA, in my book the details of my death are of concern only to my
immediate family. The rest of the world need not know anything beyond
my accomplishments. An obit is not a tell-all opportunity imho. I don't
want anyone analyzing what is gratuitous and gruesome and what is a
reasonably gentle fact.
w***@gmail.com
2005-08-24 18:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by notherenow
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and
hope I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least
to drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
Integrity? In poor taste!
Lots of people feel this way, which is why you see the euphemisms so
often. I say "integrity" because it would be a little hypocritical of
me to use weasel-words in an obit (or want them used in mine) after a
lifetime of hating that kind of thing.
Post by Tina
I love gruesome details as much as the next person, but an a public
obituary is not the place.
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his own
life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
*Who* needs to know these personal facts about a person death? Anyone who
knows the deceased will find out the details of the death.
Tina
ITA, in my book the details of my death are of concern only to my
immediate family. The rest of the world need not know anything beyond
my accomplishments. An obit is not a tell-all opportunity imho. I don't
want anyone analyzing what is gratuitous and gruesome and what is a
reasonably gentle fact.
Well said.
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-24 04:49:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and
hope I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least
to drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
Integrity? In poor taste!
Lots of people feel this way, which is why you see the euphemisms so
often. I say "integrity" because it would be a little hypocritical of
me to use weasel-words in an obit (or want them used in mine) after a
lifetime of hating that kind of thing.
Post by Tina
I love gruesome details as much as the next person, but an a public
obituary is not the place.
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his own
life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
*Who* needs to know these personal facts about a person death? Anyone who
knows the deceased will find out the details of the death.
It increases the family's chances of getting on some BS TV show, or
maybe at least a book deal.
Tina
2005-08-24 05:43:41 UTC
Permalink
"Sparky Spartacus" <<snip>>> *Who* needs to know these personal facts about
a person death? Anyone who
Post by Tina
knows the deceased will find out the details of the death.
It increases the family's chances of getting on some BS TV show, or maybe
at least a book deal.
chortle!<
Tina
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-24 10:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tina
"Sparky Spartacus" <<snip>>> *Who* needs to know these personal facts about
a person death? Anyone who
Post by Tina
knows the deceased will find out the details of the death.
It increases the family's chances of getting on some BS TV show, or maybe
at least a book deal.
chortle!<
Thanks, Tina.

:)
manitou
2005-08-23 20:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Tina
I love gruesome details as much as the next person, but an a public
obituary is not the place.
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his own
life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
I've known numerous suicides (french horn player shot himself in the
early 80s; wealthy/beautiful young woman [dumped by cello-prof/lover]
who OD'd on barbiturates in January 1969; failed concert pianist who
opted for carbon monoxide [like women in "The Opening" S3] in the late
70s), and none were given explicit death notices.












C.
Tina
2005-08-24 03:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Tina
I love gruesome details as much as the next person, but an a public
obituary is not the place.
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his own
life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
I've known numerous suicides (french horn player shot himself in the early
80s; wealthy/beautiful young woman [dumped by cello-prof/lover] who OD'd
on barbiturates in January 1969; failed concert pianist who opted for
carbon monoxide [like women in "The Opening" S3] in the late 70s), and
none were given explicit death notices.
Jaysus! Being a musician is dangerous!

Tina
manitou
2005-08-24 12:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tina
I've known numerous suicides (french horn player shot himself in the early
80s; wealthy/beautiful young woman [dumped by cello-prof/lover] who OD'd
on barbiturates in January 1969; failed concert pianist who opted for
carbon monoxide [like women in "The Opening" S3] in the late 70s), and
none were given explicit death notices.
Jaysus! Being a musician is dangerous!
Indeed.

Alan Ball could do a new TV series --- it would be way more depressing
than anything about a funeral home!











C.
w***@gmail.com
2005-08-24 18:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Tina
Post by J.D. Baldwin
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and
hope I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least
to drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
Integrity? In poor taste!
Lots of people feel this way, which is why you see the euphemisms so
often. I say "integrity" because it would be a little hypocritical of
me to use weasel-words in an obit (or want them used in mine) after a
lifetime of hating that kind of thing.
Post by Tina
I love gruesome details as much as the next person, but an a public
obituary is not the place.
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his own
life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
The family usually keeps copies of the obituary. Even little kids read
them at the time or later in the future. Do you really want your 6 year
old asking details about a murder or suicide? Somethings are just
better left unsaid.
J.D. Baldwin
2005-08-24 18:10:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@gmail.com
Post by J.D. Baldwin
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his
own life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
The family usually keeps copies of the obituary. Even little kids
read them at the time or later in the future. Do you really want
your 6 year old asking details about a murder or suicide? Somethings
are just better left unsaid.
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / ***@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick
2005-08-24 20:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Yes, indeed. But obits generally don't (though sometimes they do) go into
all the details. More often than not, you'll see, "...died after a long
illness...." rather than "...died of heart failure brought on by anemia due
to chronic internal bleeding as a result of radiation therapy used to treat
prostate cancer."

A spectactular or unusual death would probably be the subject of a separate
news item ("owner of security company shot to death in robbery").
b***@yahoo.com
2005-08-24 20:14:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by J.D. Baldwin
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Yes, indeed. But obits generally don't (though sometimes they do) go into
all the details. More often than not, you'll see, "...died after a long
illness...." rather than "...died of heart failure brought on by anemia due
to chronic internal bleeding as a result of radiation therapy used to treat
prostate cancer."
A spectactular or unusual death would probably be the subject of a separate
news item ("owner of security company shot to death in robbery").
Obits (for non-famous people) are usually written by information
solicited by the family. Whatever the family chooses to share is what
usually ends up in the paper (edited for space & clarity). It's common
not to go into gory details on a violent death.
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-25 04:26:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Patrick
Post by J.D. Baldwin
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Yes, indeed. But obits generally don't (though sometimes they do) go into
all the details. More often than not, you'll see, "...died after a long
illness...." rather than "...died of heart failure brought on by anemia due
to chronic internal bleeding as a result of radiation therapy used to treat
prostate cancer."
A spectactular or unusual death would probably be the subject of a separate
news item ("owner of security company shot to death in robbery").
Obits (for non-famous people) are usually written by information
solicited by the family. Whatever the family chooses to share is what
usually ends up in the paper (edited for space & clarity). It's common
not to go into gory details on a violent death.
In my experience the funeral home gets info from the family and takes
care of obits for the local papers. If you're famous to get into the NY
Times or Wash. Post, that's another matter.
KC
2005-08-25 05:52:28 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:26:38 -0400, Sparky Spartacus
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Patrick
Post by J.D. Baldwin
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Yes, indeed. But obits generally don't (though sometimes they do) go into
all the details. More often than not, you'll see, "...died after a long
illness...." rather than "...died of heart failure brought on by anemia due
to chronic internal bleeding as a result of radiation therapy used to treat
prostate cancer."
A spectactular or unusual death would probably be the subject of a separate
news item ("owner of security company shot to death in robbery").
Obits (for non-famous people) are usually written by information
solicited by the family. Whatever the family chooses to share is what
usually ends up in the paper (edited for space & clarity). It's common
not to go into gory details on a violent death.
In my experience the funeral home gets info from the family and takes
care of obits for the local papers. If you're famous to get into the NY
Times or Wash. Post, that's another matter.
When my mother in law died a few years ago, we were told by the
funeral home that we could give them the details to put in the paper
(a free service), or place a more personal, lengthier article (for a
fee payable to the paper). The article type would be like Keith's,
talking about his background and his work. The free type is the basic
5 or 6 line deal.

The article type is usually chosen when there is something substantial
to say, in cases where the deceased is fairly young, or in cases where
the deceased touched many lives, like a teacher or someone active in
charities or community work.

In our case, my mother in law married, had a couple of kids, worked as
a teller and a waitress. Wonderful woman, but there wasn't really much
to say and most everyone that would want to read it was already dead.

KC
b***@yahoo.com
2005-08-24 20:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Kids read obituaries? What kid? Bud Cort?
J.D. Baldwin
2005-08-24 20:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by J.D. Baldwin
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Kids read obituaries? What kid? Bud Cort?
Ed Gein's favorite part of the paper was the obituaries.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / ***@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-25 04:29:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by J.D. Baldwin
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Kids read obituaries? What kid? Bud Cort?
Ed Gein's favorite part of the paper was the obituaries.
I'm sure, but not necessarily when he was a kid - too busy playing
outdoors, torturing cats, blowing up frogs, etc.
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-25 04:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by J.D. Baldwin
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Kids read obituaries? What kid? Bud Cort?
LOL, right; but if a 14 year old's parent just died the kid might read
the obit (or it could be snipped by a friend or relative and passed
along). My dad died when I was 15, but I don't remember seeing the obit.
b***@gmail.com
2005-08-25 12:42:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by w***@gmail.com
Post by J.D. Baldwin
"Gruesome details" would be, "Blew the back of his head out with a
10-gauge shotgun in the basement of his mother's home." "Took his
own life" or "was murdered" are reasonably gentle while still being
factual.
The family usually keeps copies of the obituary. Even little kids
read them at the time or later in the future. Do you really want
your 6 year old asking details about a murder or suicide? Somethings
are just better left unsaid.
A kid old enough to read "died suddenly at work" is going to ask the
same questions anyway. And being dishonest with kids on that subject
is a huge mistake.
Yea but you don't have to tell them thier father, brother, grandpa etc.
was decapitated by sheet metal falling from a crane either. Most kids I
know that age ask "why" not how. If they ask tell them the basic not
the details. Last thing a 6 year old needs is a morbid image haunting
them for years to come.
b or t k-c
2005-08-23 21:11:56 UTC
Permalink
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death... "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
I think giving details in something as public as an obit can easily turn
into "too much information".

I think it's really problematic, though, when people who have reason to know
[e.g. family and friends] are not given the real facts. That is something
that really disturbed me about the family of the young man mutilated in the
war deciding to have prosthetics used for his viewing. I was surprised that
his sister didn't have more to say on that topic.



...................
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by J.D. Baldwin
That bit rang true to me. Obits for violent deaths, suicide or
homicide, frequently say "Died suddenly" instead of getting into
details. Personally, I would never ever write that for myself or a
slain family member, but it's very common.
What would you write? My paper never even lists a cause of death any
more. The only clue is usually the 'In leiu of Flowers send donation
to ???'
I hate obits that don't give a cause of death. I've never had to
write one for a family member who died in some shocking way, and hope
I never have to, but I hope I would have the integrity at least to
drop *some* info on the subject, e.g., "He was murdered at work
yesterday morning" or "She took her own life at home last Tuesday"
though I admit the latter would be really, really tough.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
b***@gmail.com
2005-08-23 14:56:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Post by Guy Fletcher
Post by 2000holly
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree
in Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a
member of the LAPD for nine years before joining the security
industry.
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from
West Point and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his
military commitment following West Point have him in the Army until
the mid-1990s?
Well, perhaps he discovered that whole openly gay thing just after
graduation. It happens.
Still, this rand the bullshit bell for me big-time. You go to West
Point, and it's a part of your life forever. This is the first we
hear about it? No way. That's a backstory that just can't be *that*
deeply submerged.
Agreed, totally bogus to send Keith to West Point at this point.
Post by J.D. Baldwin
Besides, a criminology major at West Point? Come on. I don't think
they even had a majors program at all in 1989, and majors today are
optional.
Post by Guy Fletcher
And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
Yes. Lots of people just call it "West Point" and you'll find a lot
of "West Point Military Academy" hits on Google, but you would not
expect to see an error like that in a published obit, even a paid one.
The other thing that bugged me about the obit is that it doesn't even
mention that he owned his own security business.
Also said he "died suddenly". That's like saying he died of natural
causes when 3 bullets went thru his heart.
So you'd rather have the obit say he was shot and killed at work.
What about the people who die when they are electrocuted? Should the
obits read 'He fried to death' or 'He died suddenly at home?
w***@gmail.com
2005-08-22 17:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy Fletcher
Post by 2000holly
Keith Dwayne Charles
Keith Charles, founder of Charles Security Company, was born in 1968 in
San Diego. He died suddenly at work on Tuesday morning.
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree in
Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a member of the
LAPD for nine years before joining the security industry.
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from West Point
and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his military commitment
following West Point have him in the Army until the mid-1990s?
And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
Not to be nitpicky but doesn't the military kick out homosexuals?
Steve
2005-08-22 20:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@gmail.com
Not to be nitpicky but doesn't the military kick out homosexuals?
I think they're still operating under "don't ask, don't tell"...
b***@yahoo.com
2005-08-23 14:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve
Post by w***@gmail.com
Not to be nitpicky but doesn't the military kick out homosexuals?
I think they're still operating under "don't ask, don't tell"...
You're both correct. They supposedly operate under "don't ask, don't
tell" but they still seek them out and eject them.

I find it believeable that Keith graduated West Point, decided to come
out and was discharged. I've met a number of guys in my life that have
been kicked out of the military for coming out.
b***@gmail.com
2005-08-23 14:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve
Post by w***@gmail.com
Not to be nitpicky but doesn't the military kick out homosexuals?
I think they're still operating under "don't ask, don't tell"...
In 1990 they weren't.
b or t k-c
2005-08-23 21:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by Steve
I think they're still operating under "don't ask, don't tell"...
In 1990 they weren't
I imagine Keith, like many gay men and women, came to accept his sexual
identity after a bit of "conflict" and "struggle". Like a lot of "straight"
kids, now that I think of it. It's not easy for young people to "come out"
now... it certainly must have been even more complicated more than a decade
ago.

....................
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by Steve
Post by w***@gmail.com
Not to be nitpicky but doesn't the military kick out homosexuals?
I think they're still operating under "don't ask, don't tell"...
In 1990 they weren't.
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-24 04:51:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by b or t k-c
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by Steve
I think they're still operating under "don't ask, don't tell"...
In 1990 they weren't
I imagine Keith, like many gay men and women, came to accept his sexual
identity after a bit of "conflict" and "struggle".
Wouldn't have been a problem for Keith, who always enjoyed fucking women.
b***@yahoo.com
2005-08-25 15:03:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sparky Spartacus
Post by b or t k-c
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by Steve
I think they're still operating under "don't ask, don't tell"...
In 1990 they weren't
I imagine Keith, like many gay men and women, came to accept his sexual
identity after a bit of "conflict" and "struggle".
Wouldn't have been a problem for Keith, who always enjoyed fucking women.
But it WOULD have been a problem that Keith has also never been
especially discreet that he enjoys fucking men too. The Military would
have had a problem with that no matter how many women he also fucked.
Usmiech
2005-08-25 23:08:48 UTC
Permalink
The obit is the death notice, not a play by play of what happened.
rick++
2005-08-23 19:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@gmail.com
Not to be nitpicky but doesn't the military kick out homosexuals?
Only if they catch them.
Often homosexuals wont admit their own identity to themselves
until well into adulthood, so someone fresh out of high school
may not really know it yet or be in self-denial.
notherenow
2005-08-22 19:46:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guy Fletcher
Post by 2000holly
Keith Dwayne Charles
Keith Charles, founder of Charles Security Company, was born in 1968 in
San Diego. He died suddenly at work on Tuesday morning.
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree in
Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a member of the
LAPD for nine years before joining the security industry.
Not to get all nitpicky, but how could Keith have graduated from West Point
and still have been a cop for nine years? Wouldn't his military commitment
following West Point have him in the Army until the mid-1990s?
And isn't the name of the school really the United States Military Academy?
How is it not possible? Just speculating here... graduated in 89,
served in the military until 95 or 96, became an LA cop in 96, had 4
years on the job when the show started in 2000. I don't have a problem
with the time line. Unless I missed that episode, I don't recall there
being any mention of his time at West Point or in the military. That
would be the stronger argument with this obit. But, it doesn't really
matter whatever the writers want to say about him is fine in my book.
jcoulter
2005-08-22 15:38:31 UTC
Permalink
"2000holly" <***@nospamtampabay.rr.com> wrote in news:***@localhost.talkabouttelevision.com:

Ok other than
Post by 2000holly
Keith attended West Point Military Academy,
that should read United States Military Academy at West Point if I am not
mistaken.

otherwise I am all choked up all over again. Damn that was a good show.
--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/
b***@yahoo.com
2005-08-22 15:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Brenda developed research methodologies to conclusively
prove the link between deviant human behavior and fetal alcohol
exposure.

LOL! Her life's work included sticking it to Ma "oh, it's OK, have a
drink, honey" Chenowith!!!!!!!


Overall, very touching. So we were to interpret that David re-partnered
after Keith. Good for him. Sad that Keith went as he did (poor David,
did his red-hooded stalker resurface?). Glad everyone, beside Keith,
lived to a ripe old age. Claire at 102!!! Good for her, She must have
become amazingly wise. Would have loved to have known her in her 70s.
Patrick
2005-08-23 00:00:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Claire at 102!!! Good for her, She must have
become amazingly wise. Would have loved to have known her in her 70s.
Well, maybe you will; her 70's aren't for another fifty years.
Unfortunately for me, odds are I'll be dead by then.
FatKat
2005-08-23 00:07:22 UTC
Permalink
This actually reminded me of a "Schiler's Reel" that ran on the
original "Saturday Night Live". Remember "Schiller Reels"? The one
I'm thinking of is set in a wintry future as the sole surviving member
of the "Not Ready for Prime Time Players" pays a visit to the resting
place of his former cast-mates. And which castmember was chosen to
represent the sole survivor? Belushi of course. As the least risk-shy
character on the show, Clare was an unlikely choice to go last into
that final night.
FatKat
2005-08-23 00:07:24 UTC
Permalink
This actually reminded me of a "Schiler's Reel" that ran on the
original "Saturday Night Live". Remember "Schiller Reels"? The one
I'm thinking of is set in a wintry future as the sole surviving member
of the "Not Ready for Prime Time Players" pays a visit to the resting
place of his former cast-mates. And which castmember was chosen to
represent the sole survivor? Belushi of course. As the least risk-shy
character on the show, Clare was an unlikely choice to go last into
that final night.
Ann
2005-08-23 18:44:09 UTC
Permalink
I remember the one you are talking about. And how eerie it was to see it
after he died.
Post by FatKat
This actually reminded me of a "Schiler's Reel" that ran on the
original "Saturday Night Live". Remember "Schiller Reels"? The one
I'm thinking of is set in a wintry future as the sole surviving member
of the "Not Ready for Prime Time Players" pays a visit to the resting
place of his former cast-mates. And which castmember was chosen to
represent the sole survivor? Belushi of course. As the least risk-shy
character on the show, Clare was an unlikely choice to go last into
that final night.
spunge
2005-08-22 17:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2000holly
Brenda Chenowith
Brenda Chenowith was born July 19, 1969 and died at the age of 82 at home.
So Billy wasn't in an institution or old age home?
Post by 2000holly
She earned her Masters Degree in Social Work at California State
University of Los Angeles and a PhD in Theories of Human Behavior at
University of Southern California.
Brenda wrote several books about the role of the gifted child in family
development. She is considered to be one of the most distinguished
scholars in that field of study, adding several courses to the Social Work
curriculum at USC. She developed research methodologies to conclusively
prove the link between deviant human behavior and fetal alcohol exposure.
As a child, Brenda was the subject of the book "Charlotte Light and Dark"
by Gareth Feinberg, PhD.
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu.
No grandchildren, hmm.
b***@yahoo.com
2005-08-23 14:46:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2000holly
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu.
Brother Billy=Nathaniel in the children's books

Nathaniel Fisher=Lover, husband, father of her 2 children

Nathanson=2nd husband.

Why can't she get away from that name?
FatKat
2005-08-23 19:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by spunge
Post by 2000holly
Brenda Chenowith
Brenda Chenowith was born July 19, 1969 and died at the age of 82 at home.
So Billy wasn't in an institution or old age home?
I was actually thinking about that - who's to say that the obits were
entirely honest. Not to say that we're being bamboozled, but that
we're supposed to read between the lines. Keith's obit doesn't
indicate the brutality of his life's end - we see it. Perhaps in
Brenda's future, her brother's institutionalization (or the fact that
she even had a brother at all) were family secrets. So instead of
saying "died while visiting her beloved brother while in an asylum" -
which might have raised uncomfortable memories of who her brother was
and what he did - the obit writers engaged in a bit of creative
license.

maybe
Jim Elwell
2005-08-22 18:21:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2000holly
Brenda Chenowith
[...]
Post by 2000holly
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu. Private services will be held
Wednesday March 9th at Deep Creek Nature Preserve.
Implying that, after a second husband and another
child, she was buried next to Nate?

-Jim
notherenow
2005-08-22 19:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Elwell
Post by 2000holly
Brenda Chenowith
[...]
Post by 2000holly
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu. Private services will be held
Wednesday March 9th at Deep Creek Nature Preserve.
Implying that, after a second husband and another
child, she was buried next to Nate?
-Jim
Presumably by the time Brenda was buried there would be very little
evidence of Nate's grave to get next to.
Ann
2005-08-22 19:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Strange that her 2nd husband had the name Nathanson, isn't it? Seems to be
a running theme throughout her life; Nathaniel, Nate (who was really named
Nathaniel) and now a last name of Nathanson. Hmmmm. I wonder what Ma
Chenowith had to say about that. LOL
Post by notherenow
Post by Jim Elwell
Post by 2000holly
Brenda Chenowith
[...]
Post by 2000holly
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu. Private services will be held
Wednesday March 9th at Deep Creek Nature Preserve.
Implying that, after a second husband and another
child, she was buried next to Nate?
-Jim
Presumably by the time Brenda was buried there would be very little
evidence of Nate's grave to get next to.
manitou
2005-08-22 21:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ann
Strange that her 2nd husband had the name Nathanson, isn't it? Seems to be
a running theme throughout her life; Nathaniel, Nate (who was really named
Nathaniel) and now a last name of Nathanson. Hmmmm. I wonder what Ma
Chenowith had to say about that. LOL
"Darling, you really should see a Freudian analyst
to deal with your ongoing repetition compulsion."














C.
Charlie9
2005-08-22 21:55:22 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:58:06 -0500, "Ann"
Post by Ann
Strange that her 2nd husband had the name Nathanson, isn't it? Seems to be
a running theme throughout her life; Nathaniel, Nate (who was really named
Nathaniel) and now a last name of Nathanson. Hmmmm. I wonder what Ma
Chenowith had to say about that. LOL
We can only hope that she was dead before the marriage.
J.D. Baldwin
2005-08-22 20:17:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by notherenow
Presumably by the time Brenda was buried there would be very little
evidence of Nate's grave to get next to.
The stone might still be there.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / ***@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Elwell
2005-08-22 20:33:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by notherenow
Post by Jim Elwell
Post by 2000holly
Brenda Chenowith
[...]
Post by 2000holly
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu. Private services will be held
Wednesday March 9th at Deep Creek Nature Preserve.
Implying that, after a second husband and another
child, she was buried next to Nate?
Presumably by the time Brenda was buried there would be very little
evidence of Nate's grave to get next to.
If you recall from the last episode, when Claire
visited Nate's grave, a stone burial marker was
already in place.

I fast-forwarded through the last episode (thanks
In-Demand) and paused at the shot of the marker. It
appears to say "Loving memory of NATHANIEL SAMUEL
FISHER ??? ? 19?? - May 21 2005".

Nate's remains may be long gone but the marker would
probably still be there.

-Jim
notherenow
2005-08-22 21:16:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Elwell
Post by notherenow
Post by Jim Elwell
Post by 2000holly
Brenda Chenowith
[...]
Post by 2000holly
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu. Private services will be held
Wednesday March 9th at Deep Creek Nature Preserve.
Implying that, after a second husband and another
child, she was buried next to Nate?
Presumably by the time Brenda was buried there would be very little
evidence of Nate's grave to get next to.
If you recall from the last episode, when Claire
visited Nate's grave, a stone burial marker was
already in place.
I fast-forwarded through the last episode (thanks
In-Demand) and paused at the shot of the marker. It
appears to say "Loving memory of NATHANIEL SAMUEL
FISHER ??? ? 19?? - May 21 2005".
Nate's remains may be long gone but the marker would
probably still be there.
-Jim
I'm feeling nitpicky just for responding to this thread again. Nate was
buried on public land. Not in a managed, maintained, graveyard. Even
in a managed graveyard headstones suffer with age, weather, and shifting
soil. Headstones in old private or poorly tended graveyards lean, fall,
break, and sometimes disappear all together. Considering that Nate is
not on private land and not in a maintained graveyard, and was not in
the vicinity of other graves... I still think it is likely that his
solitary grave will be difficult to locate in 46-odd years when Brenda
dies. Since they were in California, one strategically placed
earthquake could eliminate all traces of his plot in a matter of
minutes...
Jim Elwell
2005-08-23 01:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by notherenow
Post by Jim Elwell
Post by notherenow
Presumably by the time Brenda was buried there would be very little
evidence of Nate's grave to get next to.
If you recall from the last episode, when Claire
visited Nate's grave, a stone burial marker was
already in place.
I fast-forwarded through the last episode (thanks
In-Demand) and paused at the shot of the marker. It
appears to say "Loving memory of NATHANIEL SAMUEL
FISHER ??? ? 19?? - May 21 2005".
Nate's remains may be long gone but the marker would
probably still be there.
I'm feeling nitpicky just for responding to this thread again. Nate was
buried on public land.
What makes you think he was buried on public land?

California is one of the more restrictive states
when it comes to the disposal of human bodies. You
can't legally plant Uncle Fred randomly somewhere in
the backyard, much less on public land. In CA,
bodies _have_ to be buried in cemeteries, although
the definition of "cemetery" is a bit loose (and the
regulations regarding the disposal of cremains are a
bit different).

Odds are that a legal "green" burial would be done
on a privately-held nature preserve or the
undeveloped portion of an existing cemetery. In
either case, the exact location of a legal burial
would be known.
b***@gmail.com
2005-08-23 14:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by notherenow
Post by Jim Elwell
Post by notherenow
Post by Jim Elwell
Post by 2000holly
Brenda Chenowith
[...]
Post by 2000holly
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu. Private services will be held
Wednesday March 9th at Deep Creek Nature Preserve.
Implying that, after a second husband and another
child, she was buried next to Nate?
Presumably by the time Brenda was buried there would be very little
evidence of Nate's grave to get next to.
If you recall from the last episode, when Claire
visited Nate's grave, a stone burial marker was
already in place.
I fast-forwarded through the last episode (thanks
In-Demand) and paused at the shot of the marker. It
appears to say "Loving memory of NATHANIEL SAMUEL
FISHER ??? ? 19?? - May 21 2005".
Nate's remains may be long gone but the marker would
probably still be there.
-Jim
I'm feeling nitpicky just for responding to this thread again. Nate was
buried on public land. Not in a managed, maintained, graveyard. Even
in a managed graveyard headstones suffer with age, weather, and shifting
soil. Headstones in old private or poorly tended graveyards lean, fall,
break, and sometimes disappear all together. Considering that Nate is
not on private land and not in a maintained graveyard, and was not in
the vicinity of other graves... I still think it is likely that his
solitary grave will be difficult to locate in 46-odd years when Brenda
dies. Since they were in California, one strategically placed
earthquake could eliminate all traces of his plot in a matter of
minutes...
How do you know Nate is on public land? MOst "green" cemetaries are
privatley owned. They are used to prserver the land from future
development.
tigercat
2005-08-22 18:44:33 UTC
Permalink
if brenda died at home than billy was not institutionalized as some thought
and they were in her house.
Post by 2000holly
Ruth O'Connor Fisher
Ruth Fisher was born in Pasadena in 1946 and died at Good Samaritan
Hospital of Glendale on Wednesday. She graduated from Pasadena High School
in 1963 and stayed home to raise three children before opening the Four
Paws Pet Retreat in Topanga Canyon twenty years ago.
She is survived by her loving companion George Sibley, her sister Sarah
O'Connor, her son David Fisher of Los Angeles and her daughter Claire
Fisher of New York City. Ruth will also be missed by her four cherished
grandchildren - Maya Fisher, Willa Chenowith, and Anthony and Durrell
Charles-Fisher.
Viewing will be held on Saturday, March 15th at 2 p.m. at Fisher & Sons
Funeral Home at 2302 W. 25th Street in Los Angeles. Private burial to
follow.
Keith Dwayne Charles
Keith Charles, founder of Charles Security Company, was born in 1968 in
San Diego. He died suddenly at work on Tuesday morning.
Keith attended West Point Military Academy, graduating with a degree in
Criminology in 1989. He served the city of Los Angeles as a member of the
LAPD for nine years before joining the security industry. He leaves behind
his devoted husband David Fisher and loving sons Durrell and Anthony
Charles-Fisher, his grandson Matthew, his sister Karla Charles and his
niece Taylor Benoit of Carlsbad. Keith is pre-deceased by his parents
Roderick and Lucille Charles of San Diego. Memorial service will be held
on Sunday, February 18th at 2 p.m. at Fisher & Sons Funeral Home at 2302
W. 25th Street in Los Angeles.
David James Fisher
Born January 20, 1969. Died at the age of 75 in Echo Park. He was proud
owner and operator of Fisher & Sons Funeral Home of Los Angeles for over
forty years. After retiring in 2034, he went on to perform in dozens of
local theater productions, including Weill and Brecht's "Threepenny
Opera," Rossini's "The Barber of Seville," and as Ebenezer Scrooge in
Dickens' "A Christmas Carol." David leaves behind his partner Raoul
Martinez, his beloved sons Durrell and Anthony Charles-Fisher, his sister
Claire Fisher and his three precious grandchildren Matthew, Keith, and
Katie. In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the Southern
California Opera Association
Hector Federico Diaz
Died at the age of 75 while vacationing with his wife in Puerto Rico.
Federico graduated from Cyprus College in 1997 with a degree in Mortuary
Science. He worked as a restorative artist for several years before
becoming part owner of Fisher & Diaz Funeral Home on 25th Street. In 2005,
Federico opened the Diaz Family Mortuary on DeLongpre Avenue in Hollywood,
where he served the community for 35 years before retiring.
Pre-deceased by his parents Mauricio and Lilia Diaz of Los Angeles. He was
married to his beloved wife Vanessa for 54 years and leaves behind his
cherished sons Julio and Augusto and his three grandchildren: Emily,
Celestina and Vincent.
Memorial service will be held at Diaz Family Mortuary on Saturday,
February 16th at 11:00 a.m. Funeral mass will be held at 9:30 a.m. the
following day at St. Paul's Catholic Church in Atwater Village.
Brenda Chenowith
Brenda Chenowith was born July 19, 1969 and died at the age of 82 at home.
She earned her Masters Degree in Social Work at California State
University of Los Angeles and a PhD in Theories of Human Behavior at
University of Southern California.
Brenda wrote several books about the role of the gifted child in family
development. She is considered to be one of the most distinguished
scholars in that field of study, adding several courses to the Social Work
curriculum at USC. She developed research methodologies to conclusively
prove the link between deviant human behavior and fetal alcohol exposure.
As a child, Brenda was the subject of the book "Charlotte Light and Dark"
by Gareth Feinberg, PhD.
Brenda will be dearly missed by her beloved children Maya Fisher, Willa
Chenowith, and Forrest Nathanson, her loving husband Daniel Nathanson, and
her brother William Chenowith of Malibu. Private services will be held
Wednesday March 9th at Deep Creek Nature Preserve. In lieu of flowers,
donations may be made to a charity of your choice.
Claire Simone Fisher
1983 - 2085
Born March 13, 1983. Died February 11, 2085 in Manhattan. Claire grew up
in Los Angeles and studied art at LAC-Arts College. She worked as an
advertising and fashion photographer and photojournalist for nearly fifty
years, creating several memorable covers for Washington Post magazine, W,
and The Face. Claire often exhibited her work in New York and London art
galleries and in a time when nearly everyone else in her field had turned
to digital scanning and computer-driven imaging, she continued to use a
silver-based photographic process. Claire began teaching photography as a
faculty member at New York University's Tisch School of the Arts in 2018,
earning tenure in 2028. She's pre-deceased by her beloved husband Ted
Fairwell.
Sparky Spartacus
2005-08-22 23:25:40 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for posting this.
2000holly
2005-08-23 01:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for posting this.

You are more than welcome!
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